With the average high temperature in January below freezing we are heating things up with Season 9 of Bear-ly Getting Started by bringing you 'Warmer Winters,' a talk about the great flavors of the blustery months. Learn what decoction mashing is. Jason and Craig cover a range of viable winter options. Featuring Extra Layer Winter Fest Lager from Jack's Abby Craft Lagers from Framingham, MA.
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Jason:
The Buffalo Brews podcast. We are here for the beginning of series nine of Barely Getting Started. It's going to be aptly named warmer, warmer winters, and it has not been a warmer winter.
Yes.
Craig:
No, I, you know, Buffalo here. It's always nice to have tons of snow and had to bust out the snowblower once or twice in the beginning. It wasn't that bad.
But now we're just starting to hit that that cold, nothing, nothing crazy negative degrees or anything, but that under 20, where you go out and you're like, yeah, it's cold. And when that weather starts to just blow the blow that cold air at you, it feels negative.
Jason:
The current temperature is 18 degrees here in Buffalo. We're not a weatherman, sports is not next, but it has definitely been, it's been one for the books because we barely get into the mid twenties. I think next week it's supposed to a couple of days are supposed to touch 30, but then right back down, it's going to go.
But on a good note, before we jump into things, because, um, when we put out this first episode, the bills are in the playoffs, they're going to be playing this weekend against Denver at home.
Craig:
So hopefully when this comes out on Tuesday, we'll be looking forward to, uh, celebrating a win, you know, that home field advantage, uh, it's, it's always nice to be able to play in cold weather when the team comes in and they're not as used to it. So yeah, looking forward to a good weekend, looking forward to warming up a little bit, whether it be the weather or the beverages that we decide to choose. But regardless, you know, everyone's happy, healthy, have a good new year so far and, uh, wishing all of you guys a happy new year.
I feel like all of January we're allowed to say it. So, um, you know, 2025 getting it started in the winter.
Jason:
At what point? Yeah. That's a, that's always been a question of, uh, when are we allowed to say a happy new year and when do we stop saying it?
Cause it's just annoying.
Craig:
Yeah. I, you know, people say all month, I'm usually like the first week or two. It's usually to me the first time I see someone in the new year, if it's still kind of close early in January, I'd be like, Hey, how's it going?
Happy new year. Uh, you know, when, after, after January, it's like, no, no, it's, it's not a new year.
Jason:
It's like, why do you still have your Christmas lights on your house?
Craig:
And I also am still like when I write checks or I'm writing the dates on a label, if you're still crossing out that four and making it a five, it's still kind of happy new year territory.
Jason:
All right. So then we're starting off, we're going to start off with a banger here, I guess.
Craig:
Yeah. Jack, Jack's Abbey's, uh, craft lagers. So they're out of, uh, Massachusetts and I like their beers.
They have a really good Baltic Porter framing hammer, and then they have quite the facility that is geared to make lagers. And you know, we've talked all about lagers with our let's talk lagers, so you can kind of get a little bit more in depth with that series. But basically all beer is either a lager or an ale and with lagers, you're kind of brewing it to be a little bit more clean, crisp, but one thing, you know, that we explored with let's talk lagers, and we're going to kind of revisit here with this extra layer, it's the name of the beer is that most people think lagers are just golden for the summertime, very light, and that's just not the case.
So case in point, this is their winter fast lager. So this whole series, and you know, we'll re revisit the theme throughout the different episodes, but warmer winters, I basically selected some beers that I think will go well during these cold, wintry, blistery months, where, you know, the beverage is going to be cold, you know, this is a lager, I would still serve this at about 40 degrees, 45 at most to bring out some of the darker notes, and we'll get into that when we pour and sip.
But drinking a cold beverage, it's like, oh, how is this warming me up? Well, it's a mental thing, right? It's like, when you say close your eyes and picture yourself in the Caribbean, and when you're having a pina colada, you're back on the cruise ship.
Well, here, the dark, roasty kind of notes of darker beers and darker lagers is kind of what we're going after with this extra layer. So I'll talk a little bit about what they describe about it, and we'll talk a little bit about different types of dark lagers, because they're basically just calling it a Munich-style dark lager, boasting rich caramel and toffee notes, perfect companion for chilly, festive eatings. Keep the fest alive with this winter with a few extra layers.
Okay. The other thing I want to point out is this is a decoction mash. I don't even know if we've ever talked about decoction.
Do you know what a decoction mash is?
Jason:
I do not.
Craig:
So decoction, and, you know, fact check me, because it's been a while since I... decoction with regular brewing, not regular brewing, but the brewing on stateside, some beers, the flavor comes out better when you have what's called a step mash, and basically you're increasing temperature, and you're getting it to X degrees, and then X plus degrees, and you let it sit there for a little bit, and it kind of allows some of these darker flavors to develop. Well, decoction mashing, you know, this is well before, you know, computerized brewing systems.
This is, you're just brewing with a kettle, sometimes over a fire, and you've got, you know, mainly the Germans were doing this. You take out some of the wort, and, you know, some of the mash, and to bring up that temperature, or sorry, some of the wort when you're doing the boil, and when you want to try and raise the temperature, that's where I got to be fact checking. I'm pretty sure it's during the mash, because it's kind of equivalent to a step mash, because if not, you would just be boiling, and when it comes to the wort, and you're doing your boil.
So, what you want to do is raise the temperature, and how they would do it was, they would take some buckets out of the mash, and then get that really hot, right? Because it's harder to heat a large vessel. Small vessels will heat up quicker.
So, some things that, you know, we'll call it 130 degrees, and you want to get it up another 10 degrees pretty quickly, or 20 degrees. They would take out and fill up a smaller vessel, and kind of start boiling that, and then add it back to the large vessel, and then that would, you know, get mixed in and increase the temperature of the entire vessel by a certain amount of degrees. The benefit they say with this decoction is that you get a little bit more, you know, robust, deeper caramelization kind of flavors, because you're taking these grains, and you know, this sugary liquid, the wort that's still within the grains, and you're getting it to a hotter temperature, and during that, you're kind of extracting more flavor.
And they would do that a few different times to get to different levels of, you know, higher temperatures, and that is how they would bring up the overall temperature of the, you know, the large vessel. So, some people swear by decoction, so you can't get the same flavor without doing it. Some people are like, no, well, you know, we're just going to take our vessel here, heat it up to the temperature that they want, let it stay there for a little bit, heat it up a little bit more, let it stay there a little bit, heat it up a little bit more, let it stay there.
And when you do this step kind of mash, it's just, it's all a part of when the, you know, the sugar is being broken down, and what happens and all the stuff that, you know, most people don't want me getting into when we have a class, they just like, are we going to drink the beer?
Jason:
Are we going to talk about making this sounds like me on a treadmill, we walk a little bit, then we run and we build it up a little bit, then we bring it down to a walk. Yeah, we're on a little more until the heart's going. Yeah, let's not like no more running for you.
Craig:
Yeah, you're good. Well, the thing is, you know, I like that you bring it up because I would do it's like when you do a sprint and your heart rate goes up, it kind of stays there for a while, even when you slow down, then you sprint again, the heart rate goes back, and it's kind of like, I'm able to, it was that hit interval training, like, yeah, exactly. You're doing that.
And it's like, hey, I'm not going 100% the entire time. But these little intervals kind of trick my body into thinking that. Yeah, that's a good, good analogy there.
So, you know, I chose this because one called the Winterfest lager, it's got mittens on the can. So it's it's something that would jump out at you on the shelf as Oh, look, a winter seasonal beer, little ugly sweater a share with the design.
Jason:
I like it.
Craig:
Yeah, you know, it's got the, you know, the concept of extra layer, you know, is very, very suiting for Buffalo this time of year, because there's people still wearing shorts, they're just gonna, they might just throw on an extra layer on top and call it a day. So I'm going to crack this as I, you know, kind of talk a little bit about what these guys I think are going for, because it's just just a dark lager. So as I pour it, you know, it is kind of in between a brown, definitely not a black.
In the beginning, I thought that this might be a Schwarz beer. Schwarz beer literally translates to black beer. And we don't want to save them because I don't think I've had a Schwarz beer on the podcast yet.
But this is definitely in a dunkel, meaning dark, you can check that or get more in depth on that.
Jason:
Yeah, that he's, he's, he's a he's a professional. Look at those two could be twins, right? And it's, you know, splitting the can between two glasses.
Craig:
So Munich style dunkel and Schwarz beer. Let's just talk a little bit about that before we go into this beer, the dunkel, you can learn more on our Let's Talk Lagers, but dunkel just means dark, German for dark. There you go.
And we take those grains, they're roasted a little longer, toasted a little longer. And it brings out some kind of like caramel toffee, a little bit of a nuttiness to the to the beverage. And we had tried a Warsteiner dunkel.
And it was, it was definitely a tasty beverage. This brew has Munich and Karamunich malts. So you know, we have a Munich, basically a Munich style beer.
And that's what they call it Munich style dark lager. The dunkel we had was actually darker than this beer. I mean, this is kind of, you know, almost an amber brownish kind of brew here.
And I'm definitely intrigued. It's coming in at 6%. The other thing that usually helps during the winter months to warm up is a higher ABV.
So this isn't one that's going to knock us on our socks. But instead of your 4 to 5% lager, this is a definitely an elevated ABV. We're getting into what the Germans would call Bach territory.
Usually your Bachs need to be 6% or more. Doppelbachs would be 7% or more. And here we just have a nice 6% darker beer.
I wanted to start kind of easy because a lot of people think, oh, winter stouts and all that stuff. And we're going to get into some bigger beers that are slower sippers. But to start off with, we're just going to, you know, throw on an extra layer.
Quick cheers to you, Jason. Cheers. And a happy new year.
Happy new year. Not too late. Got a nice sweetness on the nose.
Take a sip. It's, you know, no spices, nothing. Nothing making this a, you know, winter warmer, which is kind of a different style completely.
That's usually like our Christmas ales and just your spiced higher ABV, usually malty ales. This guy's got a nice little flavor to it. You kind of can taste like a little bit of viscosity, even though it's very light.
It's got this just like sweet caramel vibe to it. It kind of coats the mouth without being too heavy. It's definitely not thick or viscous by any means, but it just, I guess what I'm trying to say is it creates the element or the experience of it just because it's tricking my brain by having that like deeper caramel kind of flavor.
Jason:
That's what I like when a beer like this will coat the mouth.
Craig:
Yeah. You know, nice carbonation on it. This is going to be a fantastic beer to eat, you know, pair with your dinner or, you know, whatever meal you like pairing beer with.
I'm not here to judge, but it's just, it stands up a little bit. Two reasons. Good carbonation.
You know, Jack's Abbey making good lagers. They have always had just a nice carbonation going on.
Jason:
They really live for, and it's kind of in their motto, they love and live to make lagers. Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
Craig:
They came around to- We live for lagers. There we go. We live for lagers.
Jason:
And they've been around since 2011, and it only took them two short years before they were winning awards, and I swear they won an award every year since. So we're talking 21 years.
Craig:
They, you know, they're all about quality. I mean, you'll hear stuff from, you know, the only other brewery that I can think of off the top of my head. There's a couple, actually.
There's the Schilling Beer Company. They make fantastic lagers, and it's always like, oh, I got to get some of those lagers. The other one that I really like that I think we're getting one in Canandaigua is Wild East out of Brooklyn.
Yeah, they're going, I don't, is it Canandaigua they're going into? I believe so. That was news over the summer.
Yeah, I think they're taking over an old YMCA, if I'm not mistaken.
Jason:
Yeah, that's an interesting one.
Craig:
Yeah, they want to focus on lager production there because they do tons of stuff. They definitely make some really quality lager. But Jack's Abbey, they're one of those ones where if you see them on a draft board or there's a can of it, you just know that you're going to have a quality beer.
They do that Baltic Porter I was talking about, and over the holidays, they released this Pastry Porter where it was a 12-pack, mixed cans, tiramisu, fudge, gingerbread cookies, and salted caramel. Yeah, all like nine and a half percent. But you drink it, they're full of flavor, and they just aren't that heavy.
They hit you because they're nine and a half percent, and I do like that they were only 12-ounce cans, but they're not, you know, oh my gosh, I just drank dessert. It just feels like, oh, I'm having a tasty sweet, you know, there's definitely some sweetness to it, but it's not as heavy or thick. And then pulling it back to something like this, this is just a very easy-drinking lager that is focusing on the caramel and toffee that you can get from Malz.
And you kind of just enjoy it during the cold weather because it's just that roasty nuttiness of it, and that coffee, or sorry, toffee and caramel. It's kind of those things that you think, you know, you would just enjoy around a fire, or it's one of those, I'm not really interested in drinking a ton of these during the summer, but in the wintertime, I just am like, okay, give me another, because it's definitely got enough flavor to, you know, give you a little something extra during these colder months.
Jason:
Right. It was initially reported back in May by Cleveland Post, and it's the old post office in Canandaigua. Post office, okay, that's for Wild East.
Craig:
Yeah, I don't know why YMCA was in my head. It was some sort of community building, but more of a...
Jason:
I like it. Yeah. You know, there's more places that are doing things like that.
The old post office up in Lockport now is going to be the new Big Ditch brewing up there.
Craig:
Oh, yeah.
Jason:
Yeah.
Craig:
They get that open yet?
Jason:
Not yet.
Craig:
All right, that's the one that's... They're getting there. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They were... I remember they were hiring for people, so it sounded like they were getting close, but... They are.
They're getting close. Yeah, it's a weird time for beer. You've got some people, I mean, and it's all cyclical.
Jason:
Yeah.
Craig:
We saw this happen in the early 90s leading up to like 2000, like throughout the 90s, it was like, hey, all these breweries are popping open and some were great and some weren't so good.
Jason:
Right.
Craig:
And the not so good ones closed as it got a little saturated and then the good ones expanded. It's also nice to expand because the ones that are closing are selling equipment and this, that, and the other. So it's kind of just, you know, the circle of beer life when it comes to breweries.
And sometimes, you know, we don't learn from the past, but it's good to have new places open up and take a stab at it. And, you know, cheers to those that didn't make it because there are quite a few that have closed or I'm hearing of closing. But that's for another time because we're warming up the winter here.
And what do you think? What do you think of this beer? How are you taking it?
Jason:
I like lightly toasty on this. I love the fact that it coats the mouth. It's one of the things I really like about, whether it's a porter, whether it's dark lagers, this one has that ability.
This one also, the toffee notes, the caramel is really prominent on this. Not so much that it's too sweet, but it makes it really enjoyable. Nice.
This is, this is great. Jack Abbey, Jack's Abbey, I, they're copper legend over the fall season. I was drinking that more than I needed to because I entered a whole bunch of Steinholding competitions.
So I had to drink it, you know, when I was done with it. So I have...
Craig:
We might have to do it this year. I know the rep for Jack's Abbey, this Emily, she's fantastic.
Jason:
I had a long talk with Emily and her, and you know, she actually talked me to come out to another competition and she was very happy when I showed up and placed better.
Craig:
So yeah, we'll have to look into that. Maybe, maybe we pull something off, but they yeah, you know, their, their program is top notch. This beer, I think, you know, a little bit comes from that decoction, that, that slight coating of the mouth and that deep kind of caramelization flavor.
I mean, when you add caramel malts, cause when you, you know, brew beer, there's basically three types of malts. I mean, there's two really, there's base malts and then specialty malts, but base malts are all very lightly kilned. And then you have your specialty malts that are a little bit more or kilned for longer or roasted for longer.
And those are your caramel malts, which like Cara Munich and Cara Pills and that type of stuff. That's, what's really adding a lot of caramel toffee notes. Then you get into the darker roasted stuff and then you can even roast barley without malting it.
And that's what makes this Schwarz beer. Black lagers are fantastic. It's like taking a dark lager and same thing when you go from like brown ale to a porter, you're taking some of that caramel toffee and, you know, turning it into, you know, kind of like light coffee, like light roasted coffee notes with a touch of toffee and caramel.
But here we have a little bit of roasty. I would not say there's much anything coffee like about this. One thing that I did start picking up and I usually get it with, you know, Belgian beers and anything that has some sweetness to it that comes from a slightly darker malt is like, it's like a little hint of raisin, you know, it's not, it's not like true raisin as if you were, you know, biting into some trail mix.
It's just that slight sweetness. And that might be my palate just comes across. I'm going to take another sip.
And it's usually on the aftertaste. And to me, it's the sweetness paired with a little bit of the caramel toffee and, you know, maybe just a hint of some esters from fermentation give me, you know, just like this little hint of raisin note, but it's very, very subtle.
Jason:
You know, when we, we can, you know, start to wind down on this, this episode here, because there's, like you would say, we're barely getting started. We've got so much more in this series to have fun with. But, you know, one more callback to this.
We were talking about earlier, warmer winters, winter warmers. And then we're talking about as we kind of shoot into that stout season as well now with this cold weather. So it was a series three for us.
We were talking about stouts. So if anybody was shouting about shouting for stouts, we definitely were. What would you say would be a fair comparison for someone who is a stout fan as far as what their appeal would be to get into something like this, like a dark lager as a comparison?
Craig:
So, all right, let me make sure I understand the question. Someone that, it's stout season, you want something that's stout, but it's, what can I get that's comparable?
Jason:
Right. That would be, so. Maybe that person trying to, not necessarily steer away, but try something different.
Craig:
Yeah. You know, that is where something like the dark lager, this being definitely more like a Dunkel, like a Schwarz beer, that is going to kind of scratch the itch because you're definitely getting coffee notes and roast on it, but to the typical stout drinker, I think they look at Schwarz beer and dark lager as like just too watery and not so much with flavor, but it's just that mouthfeel. You're looking for something a little bit different when you have stouts.
It's a little bit more robust and full-bodied. So, you know, I kind of brought it up, the Framinghammer from Jack Savvy, but the Baltic Porter. So porters are great.
So if you're used to stouts, porter is, you know, very akin, but Baltic porters, you know, there's basically English stout porters, American porters, then there's the Baltic porters because they were enjoying their porter that was being shipped to them from England. And then eventually, you know, I think Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, those are the Baltic states. They just started brewing their own and it's colder there.
So the lagers were kind of more predominant being brewed because of the temperatures. So a lot of Baltic porters are brewed with a lager yeast. So they're a little bit crisper and lighter, but they have this like full-bodied flavor.
So I would suggest something like a Baltic porter because it's typically a higher ABV like most stouts. Some of them getting into that Imperial stout ABV of, you know, 8% and upwards. I was talking about those pastry porters.
I think they were all the Baltic porter base beer with added adjuncts to create those fun flavors. So when I drank it, it kind of was just like, okay, these are stouts, but not as heavy. So yeah, I would, you know, to answer your question fully, I would just say go for a Baltic porter if you can find one.
There's not a ton. That's why I do, you know, it's a good question to ask as we're drinking Jack's ABV because one of the steadiest available Baltic porter that I've found is the Framing Hammer by them. I think it was Woodcock Brothers.
They make a fantastic Baltic porter. I've put that on draft and that's always good. So if you ever see that from them, I can't remember off the top of my head what the name of it was, but it was delicious and delightful.
And anytime I see a Baltic porter, I try it. And to wrap that up, I think last time I was at Flying Bison, they had a Baltic porter on draft and it was delicious. Very roasty, perfect for the winter time, perfect for stout season.
And, you know, one of those that not many people know about or have tried. So something to definitely broaden your horizons with.
Jason:
Yeah. I saw that they just put out their winter bock too. So you were talking about the bocks earlier.
Yeah. Okay. Well, this is a great start.
If you're transitioning out of the spice, that is the Christmas ales and you're moving into winter because it's going to be winter for God knows how long, probably till May at this point here in Buffalo, you know, wherever you're at, go out and grab yourself a winter fest lager from Jack's Abbey and it's going to satisfy the palate quite well. Oh, yeah.
Craig:
And this is one that goes, you know, well beyond winter as well because it's not one of those very, no, I just think Christmas. It's not a Christmas beer. It's not a holiday beer.
This is definitely just, hey, cold weather beer. And even as, you know, things starting to thaw and get a little bit warmer, this beer will just transcend. So good, good brew.
Jason:
Good start. And then we've got plenty more to go. And because why?
Barely getting started. Cheers, my friend. Cheers.
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